At what milestone did you feel secure?

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flaccidsteele
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by flaccidsteele »

billy269 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:55 pm I honestly have a hard time determining whether or not I should feel "secure." Curious what others think:

We're in our late 30's.
My Roth accounts (IRA, i401k, 457b) = 228k
My traditional IRA = 25k
Wife's Roth accounts = 146k
Taxable investments= 107k
Money Market = 54k
House = worth around 300k fully paid off
CalPERS Pension = I have 11 years of service credit, wife has 8

Our expenses are around 24k per year. I feel somewhat secure, but if I were to lose my job I don't think I'd feel great.
Unfortunately sounds like a “no” to me
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat
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JoMoney
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by JoMoney »

Having a few bucks in the bank is definitely better than drowning in debt, or being at the edge of falling into it, but... :? Meh... "Security" can be a funny sort of thing. The more you have, the more you have to lose.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Johm221122 »

logiclife wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:41 am
HeadHunter wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:46 am A recent milestone regarding feeling secure, we just cancelled our term life policies last week and also my disability policy. That was tough to do after paying for those for so long but after reviewing our situation, we don't need the income protection anymore.

We have term policies too, would you mind sharing what part of your life you are at so felt ok to cancel them!?

Our kid is in middle school and we plan to cancel them (they expire in 2039) once she probably gets a job or completes college.

Also, isee the numbers saying 10x, 30x times expenses etc, are we saying 10x times expenses that you expect to have when you retire!?
For me 10× current expenses make me feel secure. Just to clarify the question said what made you feel secure?
I reached that 10 years ago and with continued savings and the longest bull market in history I'm quite a ways past that now
Last edited by Johm221122 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Cycle »

I was very frugal, still am by most standards.

But after I hit 20x retirement spend, I realized it is dumb to buy cheap food or ever get upset over some spending related financial thing. I probably felt secure at 10x tho.

Even with work I could make director or stay in my individual contributor role and it wouldn't really make any difference in my financial picture, since all the hard work is already done.

I am still hustling tho to try and make myself part-time self employed, which I think is the ideal work arrangement.
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EnjoyIt
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by EnjoyIt »

billy269 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:55 pm I honestly have a hard time determining whether or not I should feel "secure." Curious what others think:

We're in our late 30's.
My Roth accounts (IRA, i401k, 457b) = 228k
My traditional IRA = 25k
Wife's Roth accounts = 146k
Taxable investments= 107k
Money Market = 54k
House = worth around 300k fully paid off
CalPERS Pension = I have 11 years of service credit, wife has 8

Our expenses are around 24k per year. I feel somewhat secure, but if I were to lose my job I don't think I'd feel great.
Based on your expenses I can definitely understand feeling some security. You are so close to 25x expenses. When I was close to 25x I started feeling very secure as well.
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Normchad
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Normchad »

I find the responses here very interesting. I really have felt secure since I was 29, when I first crossed a zero net worth. I have never felt *not secure* in the 22 years since then.....

I guess I'm a rare duck in that way......

Paradoxically, although I have felt very secure all those years, it has occurred to me that "making it" brings a new set of concerns; i.e. I've got it now, don't blow it.....

When I was 22, I concocted a notion of plan to carry me through to the age of 65. For quite a while now, I've been far ahead of where that plan aimed to be, so maybe that's why I feel so secure in things......

I've also always had a very strong feeling, that whatever life throws at me, I will be able to persevere; I just really don't worry.....
rakish_weasel
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by rakish_weasel »

Late 40's here, single, no kids.

Many valid points in this thread, particularly about the "moving goalposts" and such. As with a number of people here, there was no real one moment where I suddenly sat back and said "ahhh... *now* I'm secure" -- it's more of a gradually increasing sense of security/serenity, combined with a parallel increasing sense of.... unsettling feeling, I guess... as one grows older. Perhaps it is a variation on the "youth is wasted on the young" theme, writ large. Nothing drastic, mind you, just the overall sense that while the accounts and numbers have continued to rise and rise... so, too, have the minor (thus far) health quibbles that have poked their heads out from below the surface.

To directly answer the OP's question, certainly hitting a NW of $1M four years ago or so was a big one... but I perhaps got a greater sense of contentment from fully paying off the historic house I'd owned for 15 years. I made reference to it in a reply in another thread some time ago, but bears repeating here: everyone is different, and there is no one-size-fits-all approach, but... paying off the house was tremendous, from a mental peace & serenity standpoint. And believe me, I debated long & hard (and indeed, started an entire thread here on BH back in 2018 for advice) and went into it with open eyes re: the "opportunity cost" of paying off a mortgage rather than investing the cash. I can say absolutely, unequivocally -- for me, it was 110% the right move. Not everything about finances has to be 100% about cold/hard numbers and logic -- in this case, I have just found that I feel so much better with absolutely zero debt whatsoever, house or otherwise. And to a real degree, the sense or feeling of security increased significantly when I paid off the house, and has continued to this day.

Now at about NW $1.8M, I do feel more 'secure' in the idea that I shouldn't ever have to go homeless, or hungry, or living on beans in a single rented room, etc. 'Secure' about future retirement, however, is surprisingly elusive. Some of this revolves around the "20x" or "30x" expenses that are frequently mentioned here -- these are terrific yardsticks for determining if one has enough to retire.... *if* one is confident in the estimated expenses in retirement.

To be blunt, I'm not. Living a fairly frugal life, investing/saving about 70% of my megacorp salary and driving 20-year old Toyotas, I've determined that, keeping this same expense level in retirement, I can absolutely feel secure at this juncture. That said, I still have hopes & dreams that sometimes involve not-so-frugal scenarios. Part of me has long thought of a modest country home in the English countryside -- which, regardless of where in that country one is referring, is not going to be even remotely as affordable as a typical home in Texas where I currently reside. Even just moving to, and living in, the UK (or other northern European countries) is frequently more expensive than a place like Texas. So, given the uncertainty around whether I'll ever pursue such a fancy, do I count those kinds of costs in my retirement expenses, or not? There is no easy answer.

And this is largely why I continue to work as I approach 50 -- while I could certainly FIRE and live a comfortable retirement in similar fashion to how I've thus far lived, I find it difficult to let go of some of those plans/dreams that would require a significantly larger nest egg. So much of "retirement planning" just talks about annual expenses in retirement as mortgage/proptaxes, food/utilities/gas, travel, and typical purchases -- and understandably so. Such planning rarely takes into account the prospect of doing something completely different with one's life that doesn't easily fit into regular "annual cost" buckets.

For these reasons, while I feel much more 'secure' now than I did in my early 30's, there is also some greater uncertainty about what the future will bring, and what it is I actually want out of life. I've found it interesting how retirement planning has forced me to take a closer look at some (occasionally disconcerting) existential life questions, and what exactly one wants out of our short time on this mortal coil. That said, I appreciate that it has indeed done so -- something about "the unexamined life", and all that. :)

-rw
l1am
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by l1am »

Boatguy wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:07 pm For me (and likely others), the goalposts seemed to keep moving. At first, it was “when I get to that first million”...but that didn’t make me feel any more secure. It seemed like there was still such a long road ahead with so many known and unknown future expenses. Now, both kids are through college and on their own, the mortgage is paid off, and I see that the end is near — in a good way. I’m 67 and still working at a Fortune 100 company in a job that I really enjoy, and my wife will turn 65 in February.

While I could have comfortably “afforded” to retire several years ago, the security of knowing that we’ll both be able to go on Medicare whenever I decide to retire is what really put my mind at ease. I know that still working at this age is not for everyone, so I consider myself extremely lucky to be in a position to do just that of my own volition.
Is that a mistake though, being too conservative? If you can retire younger, and desire to, shouldn't you get past the irrational psychological block and do it?
Wannaretireearly
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Feeling secure over the past year or two, cos most major cost nuggets seem behind us:
- less than $100k mortgage left
- fewer years of kids private school left

Those two alone are close to $100k a year - imagine when it drops to zero! 🙏
So, I feel good that we're now on the back nine/second half/third base with completing the most costly items.
This time next year, we'll be millionaires!
elle
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by elle »

For me it came in stages
[list][list=]First car paid off[/list][/list]
  • Student loans paid off
  • First 100k
  • Step back with first house, wedding, etc.
  • Somewhere in here I realized all my hard work early in had paid off and I was both very employable in my field and had a desirable skill set
  • Kids and daycare felt like a step back
  • First million in assets
  • Step back moving across the country from a HCOL to a VHCOL area
  • Second million in assets
The most powerful one for me was employability. I know that regardless of what happens, if I need to I can find a new job with my skill set. The rest is built on top of it.
elle
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by elle »

elle wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:02 am For me it came in stages
  • First car paid off
  • Student loans paid off
  • First 100k
  • Step back with first house, wedding, etc.
  • Somewhere in here I realized all my hard work early in had paid off and I was both very employable in my field and had a desirable skill set
  • Kids and daycare felt like a step back
  • First million in assets
  • Step back moving across the country from a HCOL to a VHCOL area
  • Second million in assets
The most powerful one for me was employability. I know that regardless of what happens, if I need to I can find a new job with my skill set. The rest is built on top of it. That said, given my personality I will never feel fully secure but I know I can figure out what life throws at me.
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ruralavalon
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by ruralavalon »

billy269 wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:55 pm I honestly have a hard time determining whether or not I should feel "secure." Curious what others think:

We're in our late 30's.
My Roth accounts (IRA, i401k, 457b) = 228k
My traditional IRA = 25k
Wife's Roth accounts = 146k
Taxable investments= 107k
Money Market = 54k
House = worth around 300k fully paid off
CalPERS Pension = I have 11 years of service credit, wife has 8

Our expenses are around 24k per year. I feel somewhat secure, but if I were to lose my job I don't think I'd feel great.
Looks very good in my opinion.

You already have enough currently on hand ($557) to fund retirement in your mid 60s (4% = $22k) if you have any Social Security or pension benefit, even without any growth of investments, if you don't lose your jobs.

You have enough on hand in taxable and money market savings ($161k) to cover 6+ years of living expenses, if you lose your jobs and need that long to find a new jobs.
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cbs2002
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by cbs2002 »

For me security was not really about a number but my comfort with what I could live with if I had to.

If we both were out of work tomorrow, we could do nothing for a year, buy a house with cash in a nice LCOL area, take low-paying jobs, let our assets grow for the next ten years, retire and enjoy life. That feels pretty secure to me and I've only felt that way in the last few years (mid-40s). I'd like to have more but that's just choices and wants.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by HeadHunter »

logiclife wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:41 am
HeadHunter wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:46 am A recent milestone regarding feeling secure, we just cancelled our term life policies last week and also my disability policy. That was tough to do after paying for those for so long but after reviewing our situation, we don't need the income protection anymore.

We have term policies too, would you mind sharing what part of your life you are at so felt ok to cancel them!?

Our kid is in middle school and we plan to cancel them (they expire in 2039) once she probably gets a job or completes college.

Also, isee the numbers saying 10x, 30x times expenses etc, are we saying 10x times expenses that you expect to have when you retire!?
Net worth about $6 million at age 50. Wife retired 5 years ago. If I died today without that term life my wife would be just fine. :) The disability policy was expensive, served its purpose for the last 12 years and I am glad to get rid of it. To be honest it took a while to send the cancellation letters. I kept second guessing it. A few hours after finally sending the draft email I felt good about the decision and its over $5k a year of after tax income saved.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by abuss368 »

This has been more of a journey than a destination in terms of achieving certain milestones:

* Building cash.
* Total investment equal to mortgage.
* Taxable account equal to mortgage.
* Dividends qual to mortgage payment.
* Bond allocation equal to mortgage.

It has been satisfying each step of the way. The plan is to keep buying and let the miracle of compounding work over time.

Best.
Tony
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Picasso
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Picasso »

fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:09 am Never. Despite hitting $5M+ net worth in my late 40s. I constantly have to tell myself "We are rich, I will be fine regardless of what life throws at us." I suspect even if by some miracle we hit $10M I'd still be doing that.

I suspect this has a lot to do with how you were raised and experienced money throughout your life.
I’ll second this and use my own father as an example. Due to his upbringing, he is constantly talking about being worried the bank is coming to take his house away despite a net worth of ~$30M.

It’s sad for my siblings and I to witness, but after many discussions we have realized his mental state is his own to influence.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by HalfMillionaire »

Two things happened for me within a couple months - first we crossed two commas and second - 17 years after coming to the country, and 11 years after applying for one, we got our green cards. I can not explain the feeling of palpable relief.

DW and I have bunch of degrees between us in high demand fields. We could have moved to any country (including moving back to native India) if the US immigration system did its worst - but still - the security of knowing that for rest of our lives, we don’t have to worry about uprooting ourselves and kids has been a game changer.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by sergeant »

I felt secure when our yearly pension payments were set to be above 150k, house was paid off, and we had 2 million in investments. That was 5 years ago. All continues to go well. It also helps that DD and DS are healthy and fully independent.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Dottie57 »

H-Town wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:16 pm
Francis42 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:38 pm I would like to get some perspective from forum on this topic. I'm in a pretty good financial spot for my age (32). High salary, 1 year of expenses in an emergency fund, I have a ~$115k in retirement accounts and ~$220k in a taxable account. If all goes to plan, I'll invest about $80k in 2021. I've got a bit more work to in rebalancing and adjusting my asset allocation. With all that said, I still don't feel quite "secure;" I'm impatient for more. I think what I want is the feeling of being able to walk away from any job that I'm in.

I'm curious to hear from those that are further along the path. At what financial milestones did you feel secure and set (i.e. emergency fund established, debt paid off, portfolio paying for basic expenses, hitting retirement targets etc.)?
For me, financial milestones don't give me secure feeling. It doesn't feel difference now when I have $2+ mil at 33 versus when I had pretty much nothing working 3 different jobs in college.

So it depends on how you can define feeling secure. For me, as long as I live below my means, I'm good.
Unfortunately this is me too. I don’t FEEL secure. But the rational part of me can see that in most circumstances I will have a comfortable retirement - retired for 2+ years.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by xraygoggles »

Like everyone else says, the first million is the hardest to reach. That was my initial milestone where I could breathe a little sigh of relief. Once you reach that threshold, every percent increase is a lot of real $ (10k), so it starts to accumulate and compound like a snowball going downhill.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Tracker968 »

Never, there is always the possibility that the government will change the rules.
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InvestorHowie
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by InvestorHowie »

HalfMillionaire wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:55 pm Two things happened for me within a couple months - first we crossed two commas and second - 17 years after coming to the country, and 11 years after applying for one, we got our green cards. I can not explain the feeling of palpable relief.

DW and I have bunch of degrees between us in high demand fields. We could have moved to any country (including moving back to native India) if the US immigration system did its worst - but still - the security of knowing that for rest of our lives, we don’t have to worry about uprooting ourselves and kids has been a game changer.
Congrats! Having spent most of my career working closely with immigrants (including many desis) I've grown to truly appreciate the added ever-present challenge dear friends who have simultaneously grown a career, a family and an eventual retirement all while hoping things land just the right way for them to be able to stay. I know this is a huge weight off your family's shoulders and I'm proud of you!
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by RadAudit »

I'm curious to hear from those that are further along the path. At what financial milestones did you feel secure and set (i.e. emergency fund established, debt paid off, portfolio paying for basic expenses, hitting retirement targets etc.)?
Haven't got there yet. Paid off the remaining mortgage about 10 years ago with a small inheritance and retired at 63. I figured I didn't know if I was going to be OK long term or not. But I figured if I couldn't make it on SS, a small pension and a little IRA, then I had bigger problems than money.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by goodenyou »

House paid off, kids' education funded, no debt in business, no need for term life insurance proceeds and when I reached 25x expenses in invested assets. That's when I started to feel financially secure. The rest that i can't control relies on hope and good luck.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by financiallycurious »

Never, or not anytime soon.

Like other posters, the goal posts continue to move for me, and I find that financial security within the context of marriage and while raising children is an elusive concept, and have more or less given up on it. For example, even if you do everything “right” and save 20% for retirement and another amount to college and pay all your bills on time, you may find out that your spouse has surprise debts or has under withheld taxes at an amount that completely swamps all the good things you think you did. Or one of your children might get diagnosed with cancer or suffer from an addiction, and you blow through all of your savings on the out of pocket costs of treatment. I went through a few particularly few challenging years a while back and came out okay, and that gave me confidence to feel like I can weather the next storm, too, but I don't think any “number” will equate to financial security for me. Instead, I often recite the Boglehead mantra I see on here to “stay the course” and keep on plugging away as I always have, and my greatest source of security is the belief that I can handle whatever else may get thrown at me.
awg90
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by awg90 »

I've recently starting feeling secure, when I recently crossed the 400K (in retirement investments) milestone at 29 years old. But I also live on 13K a year. In the next year or two I will start upgrading my lifestyle.

I believe I have anxiety issues with money too, so it probably took longer than most to feel secure.
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orcycle
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by orcycle »

I’m confused by this. Does your father have a mortgage on his house? If so, I would think he should simply pay it off and not have that stress him out. If not, then I would be really worried for him.
Picasso wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:32 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:09 am Never. Despite hitting $5M+ net worth in my late 40s. I constantly have to tell myself "We are rich, I will be fine regardless of what life throws at us." I suspect even if by some miracle we hit $10M I'd still be doing that.

I suspect this has a lot to do with how you were raised and experienced money throughout your life.
I’ll second this and use my own father as an example. Due to his upbringing, he is constantly talking about being worried the bank is coming to take his house away despite a net worth of ~$30M.

It’s sad for my siblings and I to witness, but after many discussions we have realized his mental state is his own to influence.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by visualguy »

financiallycurious wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:36 pm I went through a few particularly few challenging years a while back and came out okay, and that gave me confidence to feel like I can weather the next storm, too, but I don't think any “number” will equate to financial security for me.
Surely there is such a number. For example, wouldn't, say, $50M suffice regardless of the storms you may face? Still, I agree with you if what you mean is that it's hard to feel truly secure with the sums which are realistic for the vast majority of us. There are a lot of potential bad surprises that life can throw at you, and it's good at doing that.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Picasso »

orcycle wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:39 pm I’m confused by this. Does your father have a mortgage on his house? If so, I would think he should simply pay it off and not have that stress him out. If not, then I would be really worried for him.
Picasso wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:32 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:09 am Never. Despite hitting $5M+ net worth in my late 40s. I constantly have to tell myself "We are rich, I will be fine regardless of what life throws at us." I suspect even if by some miracle we hit $10M I'd still be doing that.

I suspect this has a lot to do with how you were raised and experienced money throughout your life.
I’ll second this and use my own father as an example. Due to his upbringing, he is constantly talking about being worried the bank is coming to take his house away despite a net worth of ~$30M.

It’s sad for my siblings and I to witness, but after many discussions we have realized his mental state is his own to influence.
No mortgage. I’ll err on the side of not disclosing too much, but memories of financial issues from his childhood have left him in a mental space of never feeling secure. We sometimes talk of his awareness of his circumstances, but no breakthroughs yet.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by 4nursebee »

I felt secure in 2009. I had survived massive losses in trading, my own fault. I put forth a road map for the future. I took current assets, added the maximum possible to them each year, assumed either 7 or 10% growth per year. I did this on paper to see what the future could be, did the math for 10 years up to 2019. It showed me that if we maxed Roths and 401Ks and saved nothing else that we would end up with enough money, ignoring real estate, pensions, social security. At that point I knew we had made it!

It worked.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by dogagility »

For me, financial security was not a number in an investment portfolio but a psychological feeling of having "arrived".

I felt financially "secure" when I obtained my first non-training position. I had built up a lot of personal capital at that point (22 years of education + 5 years post-graduate training), and it started to pay dividends. At that point, I believed all it would take was flexibility and I would have a high-paying job for as long as I wanted one. Fortunately, that vision turned out to be true.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Financologist »

For me it's been about getting the responsibilities that are most important to me handled.

If family home, basic needs and a reasonable lifestyle for the family is covered long term I feel happy and secure.

This also means I have freedom to use my time and energy as I wish.

There are also nice to haves for which I continue to work. Like the opportunity to be charitable, help family (other than spouse and kids), pursue hobbies etc..

On a more philosophical note... security is a state of mind and not an account balance. That type of security I get by endeavoring to do the right thing in all aspects of life. In that context I've always been able to go to sleep knowing I'm putting in an honest effort. That's where real, lasting and unshakable piece of mind comes from.
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by finite_difference »

jarjarM wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:42 pm >30x so more or less fully confident in FI and work is optional. You'll get there soon enough :sharebeer
I think 25x must be feel secure too unless you’re underestimating expenses and can’t cut back a tiny bit.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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midareff
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by midareff »

For me..... I had a reasonable cola'd pension coming from one of the top ten secure pension states, SS and ... in my case $1M was my minimum exit portfolio. At that point, and at age 64 and 3 months it was time to say goodbye to the working world.
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Ice-9
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Ice-9 »

I'm late to the thread and the OP might never see this, but our household had a relatively recent "secure milestone" reached and I wanted to take a stab at the question posed in the subject line.

I basically enter very pessimistic inputs into the retirement calculator at https://firecalc.com and then look at the resulting "success rate" Firecalc outputs.

The pessimistic inputs I use include:

START HERE tab:
* Spending = all of previous year's salaries minus retirement contributions and mortgage P&I, even though we likely won't spend that much in retirement
* Years = both of us living longer than expected, dying when my wife turns 100 (I know, hard to think of living longer as "pessimistic")

OTHER INCOME tab:
* Social Security annualized totals from the monthly figures on most recent social security statement from https://secure.ssa.gov multiplied by 0.79 to account for projected reduction in benefits, using the pessimistic numbers if we start withdrawing SS earlier rather than later

NOT RETIRED tab:
* only adding a minimal contribution each year until retirement, to account for some unknown future issue drawing our financial resources away away from saving. I use the equivalent of about 15% savings rate in Firecalc here, but in reality we contribute closer to 25% of our gross income annually.

YOUR PORTFOLIO tab:
* Add 2% to my actual average weighted expense ratio to simulate the projected returns being 2% worse annually than the historical returns used in Firecalc. So, my 0.03% average weighted ER becomes 2.03% for this model.

About a year ago we reached 100% success rate with all of our pessimistic inputs and, although it's certainly no guarantee of the future, made us feel more secure.
Last edited by Ice-9 on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wiggums
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Wiggums »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:48 pm I'm actually just coming into it myself.

$62k annual spending.
House paid off long ago.
5 paid off cars.
Both kids likely done with college and both working.
$3.1MM in investments (I see it as $3MM locked in). 50/50 AA
Coming up on $100k in efund/savings/checking.
DW and I both working full time.
We're talking about calling it quits when Covid is over.
I'm 63.
Well done
remomnyc
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by remomnyc »

I didn't worry about money in my 20s when I had nothing. I felt insecure when I left graduate school with $65k debt. I felt secure again when my net worth reached $1M and I purchased my first home. Having kids made me worry again. The next time I felt secure again was when I hit 25x expenses. I'll feel I have it made when the kids are financially independent.
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Wiggums
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Wiggums »

Pre-retirement: Having a roof over our head, an emergency fund and being able to pay our bills made us feel secure.

Retirement: knowing our past expenses (Tracked in Quicken) and a small withdrawal rate makes us feel financially. We hope that we will have good health going forward.

I wish I knew more about taxes earlier!
BGeste
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by BGeste »

Tracker968 wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:37 pm Never, there is always the possibility that the government will change the rules.
This issue concerns me as well.

I am FIRE at 50X current expenses.
kayli69
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by kayli69 »

Paid off house
3 paid off cars
5.7million in taxable investments 80/20
2 million in tax sheltered investments
200k in 529 with three small children
annual expenses of appx 100k


44 years old and the most important--we are all completely healthy

At this point, I feel as long as there are no massive catastrophes we are secure, but still always wonder
I enjoy my job but find it comforting that I can walk away at any point. I no longer do anything that I dont want to do--perhaps that is the best and most secure feeling of all
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dogagility
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by dogagility »

remomnyc wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:21 am I'll feel I have it made when the kids are financially independent.
:beer I had the same feeling this year when i felt my youngest had been launched.

We no longer feel that our kids' financial well-being depends upon our financial well-being. It's quite freeing psychologically!
All children spill milk. Learn to smile and wipe it up. -- A Farmer's Wife
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

TomatoTomahto:

In 1982, at my age of 58, my wife and I had accumulated about $1M in savings and investments. We felt "secure" and with proper investments we decided I could retire from government service. It proved to be a good decision.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "I prefer, on both theoretical and practical grounds, index funds that track the total U.S. stock market."
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
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HalfMillionaire
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by HalfMillionaire »

InvestorHowie wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:51 pm
HalfMillionaire wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:55 pm Two things happened for me within a couple months - first we crossed two commas and second - 17 years after coming to the country, and 11 years after applying for one, we got our green cards. I can not explain the feeling of palpable relief.

DW and I have bunch of degrees between us in high demand fields. We could have moved to any country (including moving back to native India) if the US immigration system did its worst - but still - the security of knowing that for rest of our lives, we don’t have to worry about uprooting ourselves and kids has been a game changer.
Congrats! Having spent most of my career working closely with immigrants (including many desis) I've grown to truly appreciate the added ever-present challenge dear friends who have simultaneously grown a career, a family and an eventual retirement all while hoping things land just the right way for them to be able to stay. I know this is a huge weight off your family's shoulders and I'm proud of you!
Thank you InvestorHowie. We came with four suitcases and 2300 bucks - that was our entire set of possessions. Took us 5 years to finish our studies, then 12 years of working to hit 2 commas - including paying off all students loans - and gather two kids on the way. Now that I look back, I pround of our path too. Hoping for continued good luck thanks to good wishes from wonderful people like you.
USStks:IntlStks:Bonds::1:1:1, Tilts US Mid/SmallCap and EM.
jarjarM
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by jarjarM »

finite_difference wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:55 am
jarjarM wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:42 pm >30x so more or less fully confident in FI and work is optional. You'll get there soon enough :sharebeer
I think 25x must be feel secure too unless you’re underestimating expenses and can’t cut back a tiny bit.
Actually, my expense has ample wiggle room build in but DW is naturally conservative and worries about future. Given that CAPE is high and interest rate is quite low, I tend to agree with her right now.
count damoney
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by count damoney »

I've been "less than frugal" during my lifetime and my wife left the workforce 20 years ago to take care of home/kids. She recently re-entered part time but makes a salary so small that it doesn't really impact the overall picture, so we sacrificed 20 years of dual incomes for the benefits of not paying for child care and me not having to worry about chasing kids to events, sick days, etc. We knew we'd enter retirement not as well off, but it still was worth it.

We bought a lake house 2 years ago and it has been awesome, especially during the summer of COVID. We had a retreat to go to and a place for family gatherings. It dented the retirement picture (2 boats, 2 ATV's and furnishing and maintaining 2 houses is rather expensive :D ) but the enjoyment level is extremely high.

I've mostly felt "secure" until I started reading some of the net worth progressions and portfolios reviews of people here. I'm 51 now and targeting 62 for retirement. When I'm 62 my wife will be 65 and can go on Medicare, which means I only have to get health care for me for 3 years.

However, my portfolio is lacking and the focus of the next 11 years is building it up.
I've got 600k in houses (no mortgages)
My S-Corp shares are worth 350k and will be paid out over 5 years once I retire.
But . .I've only got 360k in tIRA, 215k in rIRA, 70k in taxable and 208k in pretax 401k .. so about 850k.

I figure 120k a year of spending in retirement, so at 25x I need to pump that 850k to 3M over the next 11 years. A tall order to get "secure", but with some focus I think I can get there (would like to set that as a target without selling a house or counting on the S-Corp money in case the company fails - no reason to think it will, but it is not "guaranteed")
pasadena
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by pasadena »

HalfMillionaire wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:03 pm
InvestorHowie wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:51 pm
HalfMillionaire wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:55 pm Two things happened for me within a couple months - first we crossed two commas and second - 17 years after coming to the country, and 11 years after applying for one, we got our green cards. I can not explain the feeling of palpable relief.

DW and I have bunch of degrees between us in high demand fields. We could have moved to any country (including moving back to native India) if the US immigration system did its worst - but still - the security of knowing that for rest of our lives, we don’t have to worry about uprooting ourselves and kids has been a game changer.
Congrats! Having spent most of my career working closely with immigrants (including many desis) I've grown to truly appreciate the added ever-present challenge dear friends who have simultaneously grown a career, a family and an eventual retirement all while hoping things land just the right way for them to be able to stay. I know this is a huge weight off your family's shoulders and I'm proud of you!
Thank you InvestorHowie. We came with four suitcases and 2300 bucks - that was our entire set of possessions. Took us 5 years to finish our studies, then 12 years of working to hit 2 commas - including paying off all students loans - and gather two kids on the way. Now that I look back, I pround of our path too. Hoping for continued good luck thanks to good wishes from wonderful people like you.
Congratulations, HM (love your handle). As a green card holder myself, I can totally relate. Being in the "rest of the world" category, I was extremely lucky to get mine much faster than you, but I remember the feeling of security, and, perhaps more importantly, freedom. I hadn't even realized how big the weight on my shoulders was, until it fell off. It makes me so incredibly sad when I see all of my Indian, Mexican and Chinese coworkers, who've been here a lot longer than I have, still waiting.

I'm coming up on the 5th year anniversary of my GC, so citizenship is within reach, and I suspect that's going to be another big milestone.
mptfan
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by mptfan »

count damoney wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:26 pm However, my portfolio is lacking and the focus of the next 11 years is building it up.
I've got 600k in houses (no mortgages)
My S-Corp shares are worth 350k and will be paid out over 5 years once I retire.
But . .I've only got 360k in tIRA, 215k in rIRA, 70k in taxable and 208k in pretax 401k .. so about 850k.
You have a net worth of $1.8 million dollars! Your portfolio is not "lacking," stop comparing yourself to the few who have more and be proud of how much you have accomplished. You have much, much more than the average American, and without doing the research I would guess you are in the top 5% of wealth with 10 years to go until retirement. You are doing great!
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

gator15 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:16 pm I can only think of one milestone thus far which allowed me some freedom at the time. In my late 20’s, I had a goal of reaching $100k. Doing so, would allow me to leave my job, take a year sabbatical and travel the world. I met that milestone, left my job, and traveled a little. Didn’t travel as much as I wanted because 2008 happened and lost a decent amount of money like most. The next milestone which will make me feel secure is a paid off mortgage. A paid off home opens up a world of opportunities. Hoping to get there in the next 5-7 years.
Depending on how much of your budget your mortgage is taking up, paying off your home isn’t likely to change much if your experience is anything like mine has been. It definitely didn’t open up a world of opportunities. Not even a neighborhood of opportunities.
3 Fund Portfolio. 70%/30% AA. No mortgage. Simple.
Admiral
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Admiral »

count damoney wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:26 pm I've been "less than frugal" during my lifetime and my wife left the workforce 20 years ago to take care of home/kids. She recently re-entered part time but makes a salary so small that it doesn't really impact the overall picture, so we sacrificed 20 years of dual incomes for the benefits of not paying for child care and me not having to worry about chasing kids to events, sick days, etc. We knew we'd enter retirement not as well off, but it still was worth it.

We bought a lake house 2 years ago and it has been awesome, especially during the summer of COVID. We had a retreat to go to and a place for family gatherings. It dented the retirement picture (2 boats, 2 ATV's and furnishing and maintaining 2 houses is rather expensive :D ) but the enjoyment level is extremely high.

I've mostly felt "secure" until I started reading some of the net worth progressions and portfolios reviews of people here. I'm 51 now and targeting 62 for retirement. When I'm 62 my wife will be 65 and can go on Medicare, which means I only have to get health care for me for 3 years.

However, my portfolio is lacking and the focus of the next 11 years is building it up.
I've got 600k in houses (no mortgages)
My S-Corp shares are worth 350k and will be paid out over 5 years once I retire.
But . .I've only got 360k in tIRA, 215k in rIRA, 70k in taxable and 208k in pretax 401k .. so about 850k.

I figure 120k a year of spending in retirement, so at 25x I need to pump that 850k to 3M over the next 11 years. A tall order to get "secure", but with some focus I think I can get there (would like to set that as a target without selling a house or counting on the S-Corp money in case the company fails - no reason to think it will, but it is not "guaranteed")
Assuming you will receive social security you do not need three million dollars at that spend rate. You might need $2.5m if you get $24k per year in SS. If you get $36k or more, your target would be in the $2m range. That's relatively easily achievable in less than a decade if you're at $850k and still contributing. If you have mortgages now, you'd do well to start focusing now (or soon) on paying them off before you retire This will lower your retirement spending and reduce portfolio withdrawals, and this lower "your number."

Just want to make sure you don't keep working for no reason... :sharebeer
Stoic9
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Re: At what milestone did you feel secure?

Post by Stoic9 »

I left home (loose word) at 17 with $10 I borrowed. Went into the Army, then got out went to College graduated at 25. All those years I felt secure, no worries. In the Army I had 3 hots and a cot, in College tuition was paid and 'being poor' was a badge of honor (drinking Old Milwaukee beer was good enough). Then I 'fooled around' and fell in love. Live wasn't about just me. It would take another 20 years for me to hit a milestone and feel secure financially. Now we're retired and very secure at 60.
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