Search found 241 matches

by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:36 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

The 401k plan I'm in is administered by ML. It is amazing how hard the representative works to hide the fees being paid by participants. When asked openly to show what someone with a $100K account is paying in total and who that money us going to, he gets agitated. Unfortunately, many employees in the plan are not financially sophisticated and have no idea what ML is charging/taking from them every year and that is the problem. Once, the ML rep claimed their fees were lower because of the drop in value. In real dollars, which the rep never wants to talk about, that was true, but the bottom line is their fees as a percentage were the same While most employees lost money, ML simply earned less. Yea I couldn’t get clear answer on percentage f...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:34 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

The 401k plan I'm in is administered by ML. It is amazing how hard the representative works to hide the fees being paid by participants. When asked openly to show what someone with a $100K account is paying in total and who that money us going to, he gets agitated. Unfortunately, many employees in the plan are not financially sophisticated and have no idea what ML is charging/taking from them every year and that is the problem. Once, the ML rep claimed their fees were lower because of the drop in value. In real dollars, which the rep never wants to talk about, that was true, but the bottom line is their fees as a percentage were the same While most employees lost money, ML simply earned less. Yea I couldn’t get clear answer on percentage f...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:27 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

retired@50 wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:19 am Is this a new job, or a new plan to you?

If not, maybe just reviewing past statements over an entire year, looking for actual deductions or negative transactions would help...

Regards,
It’s new and I’m trying to analyze participant costs. The funds themselves are good but obviously there is more to it than just that
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:24 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

+1 on reading your plan documents; that will give you some of the info you are looking for. Plan costs will vary, based on a combination of different factors: whether your company runs the plan themselves (and if so, how well) or uses a third-party administrator (and which administrator they use), presence of a broker (if any), the actual plan agreement, the plan investment options selected, contribution matching policies, how good a job your company does in negotiating fees, and their policies on who pays the fees. Also, how competitive your industry is for attracting and retaining good employees can help; more competitive industries are incentivized to want to keep good talent, meaning things like fewer retirement plan fees are passed th...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:42 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

You need two things: 408(b)(2) form - this discloses the fee schedule in official language vs. the "summary plan document" which may be a bit fuzzy Statement of plan assets - this shows all the assets invested for the whole plan Both of these documents are required to be made available to the employer (not the employee) - but you might be able to request them from whoever runs your benefits. But as someone else noted, likely your employer is eating some of these fees, so "your" fee may vary. Yes I have statement of plan assets. In that it lists a dollar amount of administrative fees paid by plan from plan assets. If I take that number and divide by total plan assets doesn’t this give me this administrative fee that is p...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:19 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

Just call or email ADP. I asked my provider for the Summary Description Plan and they emailed it within 24 hours Yes I read it says plan expenses paid from plan assets, I’m trying figure out this amount on a percentage basis. You need two things: 408(b)(2) form - this discloses the fee schedule in official language vs. the "summary plan document" which may be a bit fuzzy Statement of plan assets - this shows all the assets invested for the whole plan Both of these documents are required to be made available to the employer (not the employee) - but you might be able to request them from whoever runs your benefits. But as someone else noted, likely your employer is eating some of these fees, so "your" fee may vary. Yes I ...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 8:06 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

Just call or email ADP. I asked my provider for the Summary Description Plan and they emailed it within 24 hours Yes I read it says plan expenses paid from plan assets, I’m trying figure out this amount on a percentage basis. You need two things: 408(b)(2) form - this discloses the fee schedule in official language vs. the "summary plan document" which may be a bit fuzzy Statement of plan assets - this shows all the assets invested for the whole plan Both of these documents are required to be made available to the employer (not the employee) - but you might be able to request them from whoever runs your benefits. But as someone else noted, likely your employer is eating some of these fees, so "your" fee may vary. Yes I ...
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:55 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

GuyInFL wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:50 am Just call or email ADP. I asked my provider for the Summary Description Plan and they emailed it within 24 hours
Yes I read it says plan expenses paid from plan assets, I’m trying figure out this amount on a percentage basis.
by ball241
Sat Jan 13, 2024 7:33 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

In reviewing statement of net assets and looking at administrative expenses charged to plan which it says are deducted from plan net assets. The percentage relative to total plan assets is approximately 0.8%.

Would this be appropriate way to calculate the all in fees on a percentage basis for a 401k?
This would not include the individual mutual fund expense ratios, which would be added to above to get total percentage fee.

Just trying to see if I am missing anything or if that seems accurate

Thanks
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:06 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

Two different fees, one paid by you and one by your employer. It might be two fees, but if the employer is paying one of them, then it appears all you'll have to pay is the 0.25% that was disclosed... No? Or maybe check with someone in Human Resources or Payroll to see how they explain it. Regards, I see three fees. Two of which are charged to participant accounts. While your employer is currently invoiced as a general matter for administrative fees charged by the Plan’s recordkeeper or collected by the recordkeeper on behalf of another service provider, the recordkeeper charges an asset-based plan-level processing fee that will be charged against participant accounts on a pro rata basis. In addition to any Plan administrative expenses des...
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:05 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

My take on these additional administrative fees is that they are charged for every dollar you put into the 401k plan, regardless of which investment you select. So, I think your all-in cost will be the 0.33% you mention. Is that what you're asking? Regards, I wasn’t sure if the way it reads there is an additional fee on top of 0.33% as it lists 0.25 add on as investment related services. I’m also trying get a sense if thoughts are that this is a reasonable cost plan based off of these fees Sounds like your employer is currently paying the admin fee and your total is the ER plus the 0.25%. It’s not terrible, but there are better. My sister was pay 1.5% not long ago. A good plan would be 0.1%. Yea that’s what I was trying to figure out why i...
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:02 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

retired@50 wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:01 pm It might be two fees, but if the employer is paying one of them, then it appears all you'll have to pay is the 0.25% that was disclosed... No?

Or maybe check with someone in Human Resources or Payroll to see how they explain it.

Regards,
Ok thanks I will do this. Yes possibly one is paid by employer
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:57 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

toddthebod wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:54 pm
ball241 wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:34 pm the recordkeeper charges an asset-based plan-level processing fee that will be charged against participant accounts on a pro rata basis.

In addition to any Plan administrative expenses described above, fees for Investment related services to the Plan of 0.25% of participant balances will be allocated to participant accounts.
These sound like two different fees. I don't get why you think the first fee is 0.25 as well, though.

I disagree with the others' interpretation.
I agree with your interpretation 2 separate fees, one is 0.25% the other is unclear
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:55 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

My take on these additional administrative fees is that they are charged for every dollar you put into the 401k plan, regardless of which investment you select. So, I think your all-in cost will be the 0.33% you mention. Is that what you're asking? Regards, I wasn’t sure if the way it reads there is an additional fee on top of 0.33% as it lists 0.25 add on as investment related services. I’m also trying get a sense if thoughts are that this is a reasonable cost plan based off of these fees Sounds like your employer is currently paying the admin fee and your total is the ER plus the 0.25%. It’s not terrible, but there are better. My sister was pay 1.5% not long ago. A good plan would be 0.1%. Yea that’s what I was trying to figure out why i...
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:41 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

Re: 401k fees

retired@50 wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:37 pm My take on these additional administrative fees is that they are charged for every dollar you put into the 401k plan, regardless of which investment you select. So, I think your all-in cost will be the 0.33% you mention.

Is that what you're asking?

Regards,
I wasn’t sure if the way it reads there is an additional fee on top of 0.33% as it lists 0.25 add on as investment related services.
I’m also trying get a sense if thoughts are that this is a reasonable cost plan based off of these fees
by ball241
Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:34 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: 401k fees
Replies: 30
Views: 2241

401k fees

Currently reviewing 401k option with ADP. The plan offers low cost vanguard options so that is good. This however is language under administrative expenses: While your employer is currently invoiced as a general matter for administrative fees charged by the Plan’s recordkeeper or collected by the recordkeeper on behalf of another service provider, the recordkeeper charges an asset-based plan-level processing fee that will be charged against participant accounts on a pro rata basis. In addition to any Plan administrative expenses described above, fees for Investment related services to the Plan of 0.25% of participant balances will be allocated to participant accounts. A portion of this fee will be charged to participant accounts quarterly. ...
by ball241
Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:56 pm
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Backdoor Roth Vanguard
Replies: 3
Views: 430

Re: Backdoor Roth Vanguard

Completed transaction to traditional IRA with transfer from vanguard brokerage account. Would anyone know when this will be available to convert to Roth? Some say 7 days others say 2. I’m just trying get it done in same year. Thanks in advance if someone has answer
by ball241
Tue Dec 26, 2023 9:22 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Backdoor Roth Vanguard
Replies: 3
Views: 430

Re: Backdoor Roth Vanguard

stan1 wrote: Tue Dec 26, 2023 9:20 am If you convert the entire Traditional IRA balance to a Roth IRA the Traditional IRA will be left with a zero balance, so the dividends earned while it is a Traditional IRA end up in the Roth account. You might pay $1 or so of federal and state tax, that's just data entry from the 1099-R into your tax software and you should not be concerned about it.
Ok thanks yes I will check to convert the entire amount. Fund today convert on Thursday is plan as long as system allows. I believe it should as I am funding with taxable brokerage money already at vanguard.This should keep 8606 as simple as possible as contribution and conversion are in same year.
by ball241
Tue Dec 26, 2023 9:14 am
Forum: Personal Investments
Topic: Backdoor Roth Vanguard
Replies: 3
Views: 430

Backdoor Roth Vanguard

Will vanguard automatically transfer the dividends earned from when traditional Ira is funded and Roth conversion is made to Roth. Am planning to do this today and plan to convert by Thursday.

My question is will the dividends earned which will be a small amount be converted as well or will they be deposited to traditional IRA leaving a small balance there?

Plan to use settlement federal money market for traditional IRA. There are no other Traditional IRA assets so no pro rata rule.

Appreciate any tips from this knowledgeable forum as I would like to keep this as simple as possible with form 8606.

Thanks
by ball241
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:27 am
Forum: US Chapters
Topic: Happy 98th Birthday to Taylor Larimore 🎂🍰🎉🎊❤️🎁⭐️
Replies: 264
Views: 19644

Re: Happy 98th Birthday to Taylor Larimore 🎂🍰🎉🎊❤️🎁⭐️

Happy Birthday. Your clear simple advice is a great help to many.
by ball241
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:29 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: RIP Jack Bogle
Replies: 71
Views: 9128

Re: RIP Jack Bogle

Reading Jacks books and following his advice of maintaining low costs and never market timing has helped me immensely in investing. He truly cared about the common investor getting a fair shake. I keep copies of his books to reread in times of volatile markets.
by ball241
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:08 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: Stock/Bond allocation and staying the course is all that matters
Replies: 4
Views: 696

Re: Stock/Bond allocation and staying the course is all that matters

I was doing some year end number crunching as I normally do to keep track of long term results. One of the things I do is keep good honest record keeping and compare to benchmarks as well as alternatives. This helps cut through all the debates we have on the forum regarding valuations, US vs Intl, Bond rates, Inflation, Value vs Growth, on and on... bottomline is that none of that actually matters, costs, simplicity, and stock / bond allocation ratio are the only drivers that matters. See some numbers here that I track since 2003 (19 years): Personal portfolio return 2003-2021: 9.46% Comparable 3-fund benchmark of 55% TSM/22% TISM/23% TBM: 9.5% Comparable slice & dice portfolio using DFA funds (11 funds - 50% US, 27% Intl & EM, 23%...
by ball241
Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:29 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: If Valuation doesn't matter, what does?
Replies: 668
Views: 46757

Re: If Valuation doesn't matter, what does?

I'm not trying to be annoying, but who is making them do this...? In a "normal" market, when something gets too expensive, they stop buying it.... Is there something different today driving people to believe that they don't have a choice... ? CraigTester, Your statement is totally illogical. A) Many of us are not 100% stock. For example, my AA is 60/40. I invest on whatever is low on my allocation. B) I invest my savings. Aka, whatever I do not spend, I save and invest. C) I do this all the times. I do not assume that I can predict the market and knowing the market is normal or not. I do not claim that I am smart. So, please explain to me how you could behave differently? 1) Are you claiming that you can predict the future? 2) If...
by ball241
Sat Jan 08, 2022 12:17 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: If Valuation doesn't matter, what does?
Replies: 668
Views: 46757

Re: If Valuation doesn't matter, what does?

I'm not trying to be annoying, but who is making them do this...? In a "normal" market, when something gets too expensive, they stop buying it.... Is there something different today driving people to believe that they don't have a choice... ? CraigTester, Your statement is totally illogical. A) Many of us are not 100% stock. For example, my AA is 60/40. I invest on whatever is low on my allocation. B) I invest my savings. Aka, whatever I do not spend, I save and invest. C) I do this all the times. I do not assume that I can predict the market and knowing the market is normal or not. I do not claim that I am smart. So, please explain to me how you could behave differently? 1) Are you claiming that you can predict the future? 2) If...
by ball241
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:46 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]
Replies: 324
Views: 25085

Re: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]

In the past two decades what has been the earnings growth for US total market vs International stock index? What percentages for earnings growth should we use for international stock index in order to compare? Thanks Over 75% of US outperformance aaa valuation change per Cliff Asness at AQR Is there a earnings growth rate we can compare between 2 over past 20 years? Possibly that could explain the higher US valuations and projecting into future that that will continue. I am not entering debate saying whether that is true or not, just wondering in past 20 years if anyone had actual growth in earnings comparison. Thanks It was slightly higher. Not enough to justify 2x the valuation (imo) Read Cliff Asness report The Long Run Is Lying To You ...
by ball241
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:39 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]
Replies: 324
Views: 25085

Re: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:33 pm
ball241 wrote: Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:32 pm In the past two decades what has been the earnings growth for US total market vs International stock index? What percentages for earnings growth should we use for international stock index in order to compare?

Thanks
Over 75% of US outperformance aaa valuation change per Cliff Asness at AQR
Is there a earnings growth rate we can compare between 2 over past 20 years?

Possibly that could explain the higher US valuations and projecting into future that that will continue. I am not entering debate saying whether that is true or not, just wondering in past 20 years if anyone had actual growth in earnings comparison.

Thanks
by ball241
Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:32 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]
Replies: 324
Views: 25085

Re: International in 2022 -- yay or nay? [Developed and Emerging markets]

In the past two decades what has been the earnings growth for US total market vs International stock index? What percentages for earnings growth should we use for international stock index in order to compare?

Thanks
by ball241
Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:33 am
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: How did you stay calm during periods of market volatility?
Replies: 133
Views: 11428

Re: How did you stay calm during periods of market volatility?

It can be difficult, I like to reread Bogle’s books. It’s helpful to have copies.

Common sense on mutual funds
The little book of common sense investing
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:17 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

HMBradley likely is getting data loads ftom Hatch bank with account information. How else would they know you sent funds directly to Hatch without scheduling with their system? There are sll sorts of ways softwsre fsilures or bad data could create a difference between the balance HMBradley rroirts to you, and your Hatch bank balance. I would presume that HMBradley has robust audit procedures to catch these things. While you can move assets to Hatch without using HMBradley infrastructure does the HMBradley system have the capability to move assets out of your Hatch account? Could an attacker compromise the HMBradley web site and use it to move assets from your account to HMBradley and then send it to their account, all the while reporting y...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:39 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

The main risk in having the HMBradley account would be if there is a discrepancy between your HMBradley statement and what Hatch bank thinks you have. You should track deposits and debits and verify every statement. This of course applies to any bank account. But if HMBradley's statement and balance displayed online are correct, but your account was drained, things get interesting. You don't get statements from Hatch Bank, so how would you ever know. Cough...Madoff....Cough.... And they offer a credit card, MasterCard did not do their due diligence. That’s a bit of a stretch I think. More than a stretch, but no due diligence protects from people, processes, business plans or software going rogue. Neither MC or FDIC will be there if HMBradl...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:16 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:15 pm Master Card takes no particular interest in the security of your bank accounts.
Agree, but was commenting on scam aspect that was posted.
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:12 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

inbox788 wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:10 pm
Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:03 pmThe main risk in having the HMBradley account would be if there is a discrepancy between your HMBradley statement and what Hatch bank thinks you have. You should track deposits and debits and verify every statement. This of course applies to any bank account. But if HMBradley's statement and balance displayed online are correct, but your account was drained, things get interesting.
You don't get statements from Hatch Bank, so how would you ever know. Cough...Madoff....Cough....
And they offer a credit card, MasterCard did not do their due diligence. That’s a bit of a stretch I think.
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:38 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Maybe an example will clarify some points. I know of a real estate transaction where a very large sum was to be wired from a buyer to the title/escrow company that was closing the transaction. Someone involved in the transaction had their email breeched. The attacker used the knowledge of the timing of the closing and the title company involved to craft a very realistic-looking phishing attack. The timing of the forged email led to the buyer not questioning it. The buyer wired the cash to the attacker's account. (The cash presumably was then sent to an overseas account). My understanding is that the buyer had no recourse with either bank-- both banks did what they were asked to do. Logging in to HMBradley to get the account number to which...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:13 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

If you use the online banking app of your external bank to schedule EFT to or from Hatch bank, this is fine. The main risk in having the HMBradley account would be if there is a discrepancy between your HMBradley statement and what Hatch bank thinks you have. You should track deposits and debits and verify every statement. This of course applies to any bank account. True, I have not seen any discrepancies with balances. I’m trying decide if to keep account based on some of things others have pointed out. I would never have opened it if it didn’t go directly through hatch or an fdic bank. Also now there requiring credit card to maintain rate Understood & agreed about initiating transfers from the "other" institution. Now, is t...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:54 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Do you use HMBradley's web app software to schedule the EFT or do you schedule it with your bank that holds the funds to be sent? Always with external bank to push or pull depending on direction. Never through app. If you use the online banking app of your external bank to schedule EFT to or from Hatch bank, this is fine. The main risk in having the HMBradley account would be if there is a discrepancy between your HMBradley statement and what Hatch bank thinks you have. You should track deposits and debits and verify every statement. This of course applies to any bank account. True, I have not seen any discrepancies with balances. I’m trying decide if to keep account based on some of things others have pointed out. I would never have opene...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:31 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

As long as deposits are sent directly to Hatch Bank without going through HMBradley, and you chrck your account transactions and balance directly at Hatch Bank, and either receive statements directly Hatch Bank or validate them uoon receipt, I don't see a problem. The transactional risk would be if there were a situation where HMBradley and Hatch could have a different opinion of your account balance, and you have been relying on HMBradley's view/statements. Well, deposits do go directly to hatch per deposit agreement, but balances can only be viewed through HMBradley. I haven't verified this, but presumably you can also see the balance at an ATM. The HMBradley debit card is issued by Hatch which can be verified by checking its issuer iden...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Northern Flicker wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:12 pm see my edit at the end of the quoted post.
It would appear they are directly connected to hatch, deposits and withdrawals show immediately. Maybe someone else can comment on this.
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:11 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Hatch's liability to you only starts when the funds have landed in your account at Hatch. Hatch has no liability for assets being transferred before the assets have landed in the HMBradley user's account at Hatch. If HMBradley is breached, and the attacker modifies the account number and maybe even the routing number of the destination of an in flight EFT, it will land in a different account, maybe even at a different institution. I lack expertise in consumer banking laws, so my opinion is not trustworthy, but I don't see why Hatch's obligations under Reg E should apply in this scenario. I do not quite understand this. If you initiate transfer from another institution they are sending etf transfer directly to hatch through routing number w...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:53 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Im really not sure what you are trying to say - are you talking about potential transfers initiated in the HMBradley app? Or just more generally? If generally, the deposit agreement is between the customer and hatch. Hatch's liability to you only starts when the funds have landed in your account at Hatch. Hatch has no liability for assets being transferred before the assets have landed in the HMBradley user's account at Hatch. If HMBradley is breached, and the attacker modifies the account number and maybe even the routing number of the destination of an in flight EFT, it will land in a different account, maybe even at a different institution. I lack expertise in consumer banking laws, so my opinion is not trustworthy, but I don't see why ...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:52 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Im really not sure what you are trying to say - are you talking about potential transfers initiated in the HMBradley app? Or just more generally? If generally, the deposit agreement is between the customer and hatch. Hatch's liability to you only starts when the funds have landed in your account at Hatch. Hatch has no liability for assets being transferred before the assets have landed in the HMBradley user's account at Hatch. If HMBradley is breached, and the attacker modifies the account number and maybe even the routing number of the destination of an in flight EFT, it will land in a different account, maybe even at a different institution. I lack expertise in consumer banking laws, so my opinion is not trustworthy, but I don't see why ...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:43 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Im really not sure what you are trying to say - are you talking about potential transfers initiated in the HMBradley app? Or just more generally? If generally, the deposit agreement is between the customer and hatch. Hatch's liability to you only starts when the funds have landed in your account at Hatch. Hatch has no liability for assets being transferred before the assets have landed in the HMBradley user's account at Hatch. If HMBradley is breached, and the attacker modifies the account number and maybe even the routing number of the destination of an in flight EFT, it will land in a different account, maybe even at a different institution. I lack expertise in consumer banking laws, so my opinion is not trustworthy, but I don't see why ...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:25 pm
Forum: Investing - Theory, News & General
Topic: MAGI for Roth IRA contributions
Replies: 4
Views: 914

Re: MAGI for Roth IRA contributions

It has been discussed recently that the income from a Roth conversion is not included in calculating the MAGI (modified aggregate gross income) that limits one's eligibility to contribute to Roth IRA. That seems like a good thing. I got to wondering if that also applies to an in-plan Roth rollover in a 401k (or similar) type plan. Apparently not! The worksheet for this MAGI is found here. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590a#en_US_2020_publink1000230985 The way I read it, if you convert from IRA to Roth IRA the income from that conversion gets subtracted out of the AGI to reach the MAGI. Or if you do a rollover from 401k to Roth IRA, that also gets subtracted out of the AGI to get to the MAGI. 1. But not if you do an in-plan Roth rollove...
by ball241
Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:55 am
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

From the HMBradley Terms of Use. Bold text in red is my added emphasis. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. THE WEBSITE AND MOBILE APPLICATIONS (INCLUDING ALL INFORMATION AND MATERIALS CONTAINED ON THE WEBSITE AND MOBILE APPLICATIONS) ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE". HMBRADLEY AND THIRD-PARTY DATA PROVIDERS ARE NOT PROVIDING ANY WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE WEBSITE OR MOBILE APPLICATIONS AND DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND REPRESENTATIONS OF ANY KIND WITH REGARD TO THE WEBSITE AND MOBILE APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD-PARTY RIGHTS, FREEDOM FROM VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL CODE, OR FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. FURTHER, HMBRADLEY WILL NOT BE LIABLE...
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:23 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

I was specifically discussing HM Bradley where it is clear that you are a deposit customer of Hatch. There isnt a debate on that - the deposit agreement is very clear. I would not have signed up if that was not the case given what happened with Beam. Brokerage's arent FDIC insured - they may sweep to an FDIC insured account, but the account is likely in their name; not yours. The banking agreement is clear, but the transfer is not. You don't necessarily have a contract with Hatch bank without HMBradley as a go between. There are many such partnerships where they gloss over the specifics, and there are gaps. There may or may not be one here depending on whether the arrangement is primary with Hatch or HMBradley, and who is ultimate responsi...
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:53 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Well, it probably is safe, but if it brcomes too much trouble for me to complete my due diligence, I would pass. It sounds like the business plan is to set up sticky accounts, using things like direct deposit to create extra hassle to move the account, use VC capital to buy market share through a teaser rate, then gradually make it less attractive and more profitable once the market share is achieved. Sounds like I also would be late to the party. My preference is just not to worry about maintaining a high checking account balance, and to use a credit union account with no fees, no mininum balance, and an interest rate of 0.2%. Then I can maximize the assets that stay invested without worrying about checking account fees or minimums or tra...
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:30 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:27 pm If you have a Hatch bank account in your name and know the account number, it seems like you should have some way of using the account number to confirm the account directly with Hatch Bank.
You do have an account through hatch, but only can you verify through HMBradley.
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:10 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:07 pm As long as deposits are sent directly to Hatch Bank without going through HMBradley, and you chrck your account transactions and balance directly at Hatch Bank, and either receive statements directly Hatch Bank or validate them uoon receipt, I don't see a problem.

The transactional risk would be if there were a situation where HMBradley and Hatch could have a different opinion of your account balance, and you have been relying on HMBradley's view/statements.
Well, deposits do go directly to hatch per deposit agreement, but balances can only be viewed through HMBradley.
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:46 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

If HMBradley software services drive the processes, you have to be ensure that your assets cannot be breeched by HMBradley being breeched and the processes being compromised. What if you move $ from your checking account to your HMBradley account, and a compromise at HMBradley instead does the EFT to the attacker's account? I am not saying this is an issue, but just because the funds are at Hatch Bank does not mean that you automatically are immunized against cyberattacks directed at HMBradley. Thats the point - I've never used HMBradley to move funds from an outside account and there is no reason to ever do that. If you want to transfer from checking to HMBradley you push from checking using the routing number of Hatch. Easy. Push transfe...
by ball241
Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:26 pm
Forum: Personal Finance (Not Investing)
Topic: How safe are the fintech banks?
Replies: 221
Views: 16509

Re: How safe are the fintech banks?

Northern Flicker wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:20 pm The problem I have is that I cannot assess the risk to my satisfaction from what is provided on the HMBradley web site. It appears to me from information provided in the thread that the risk is not materially different from a notmal bank account, but it took 2nd hand information from people who actually created HMBradley accounts to ascertain that.

I don't want to rely on 2nd hand information or have to create my own account to assess the risk level.
That is understandable, with all this analysis I am uncertain if their is risk. I had thought it was like normal bank account previously.